Putin:我们有我们的国情

任之初.beta
2017-10-12 22:57:04
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四级一口气看下来,聊普京的过去,聊乌克兰的“橙色革命”,聊克里米亚的公投,聊打击isis,寡头经济,苏联遗产,斯诺登,网络战,当中穿插着讲美帝是如何战略包围俄罗斯而俄罗斯一直寻求合作,无意于对抗等等。前三集腾讯有中文字幕,但是最后一集没有,下载了英文字幕版的第四集龟速看完。

中间印象最深刻最有趣的对话发生在第三集关于土耳其和isis的讨论中,根据腾讯视频部分中文字幕部分摘录如下:

……

斯通:ISIS驾车驶向土耳其时使用的路(和)油车。

普京:其中一条路直接穿过那个地区——土库曼人居住的地区。那是向土耳其提供石油的最佳路 线,路线最短,而且可以通往土耳其位于地中海的一个港口。

斯通:你有没有直接告诉埃尔多安?

普京:不,我没告诉他。

斯通:你对土库曼人的地盘实施军事打击,没告诉他原因吗?

普京:你觉得我有必要那么做吗?有什么必要?又不是他的国家。我们和合法的叙利亚当局和武装力量合作一起对付激进组织。

斯通:能不能通过外交方式和他说,总统先生,我们有消息,确切的情报,有石油从土耳其某些位置进入,我们有理由相信土耳其边境走私的人与ISIS合作走私石油,

...
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四级一口气看下来,聊普京的过去,聊乌克兰的“橙色革命”,聊克里米亚的公投,聊打击isis,寡头经济,苏联遗产,斯诺登,网络战,当中穿插着讲美帝是如何战略包围俄罗斯而俄罗斯一直寻求合作,无意于对抗等等。前三集腾讯有中文字幕,但是最后一集没有,下载了英文字幕版的第四集龟速看完。

中间印象最深刻最有趣的对话发生在第三集关于土耳其和isis的讨论中,根据腾讯视频部分中文字幕部分摘录如下:

……

斯通:ISIS驾车驶向土耳其时使用的路(和)油车。

普京:其中一条路直接穿过那个地区——土库曼人居住的地区。那是向土耳其提供石油的最佳路 线,路线最短,而且可以通往土耳其位于地中海的一个港口。

斯通:你有没有直接告诉埃尔多安?

普京:不,我没告诉他。

斯通:你对土库曼人的地盘实施军事打击,没告诉他原因吗?

普京:你觉得我有必要那么做吗?有什么必要?又不是他的国家。我们和合法的叙利亚当局和武装力量合作一起对付激进组织。

斯通:能不能通过外交方式和他说,总统先生,我们有消息,确切的情报,有石油从土耳其某些位置进入,我们有理由相信土耳其边境走私的人与ISIS合作走私石油,而且我们很担心……

普京:哈哈哈哈……哈哈哈哈……哈哈哈哈……跟你聊天真开心。听我说,G20峰会的时候,记者离开房间以后,我从位置上拿出了照片——就这么大的照片(看他比划大概一张A2纸大小),我给所有人展示那些路线,而且也给美国的官员看了。而且,美国不是领导对抗ISIS的同盟么?所有人都一清二楚,何必多此一举?毫无意义,事情太明显了。不只是一辆车,数千辆车从哪个地区经过,看起来像移动的管道,连成一片。

斯通:美国都有谁在那个房间?

普京:你的问题涉及到不能公开的内容。

第四集现在部分摘录如下:

Stone: On Stalin. He said that, you know,he`s said negtive things about Stalin,uh,and of course, he`s widely condemned in the world. But at the same time, we all know that he lead Russia to victory over Germany, over fascism. And what does he make of that,by,uh... let`s say that ambiguity?

Putin: I think you are a cunning person. hahahahaha...

Stone: Why?

Putin: hahahaha...

Stone: He can discuss it tomorrow if he wants.

Putin: No, I am ready to answer now. You know, there was one prominent politican of the past,Winston Churchill. He was very firmly against Sovietism, but once the Second World War started, he was a great advocate of working together with the Soviet Union, and he called Stalin a great war leader and revolutionary. hahahaha... And after the Second World War, as is well known, it was Churchill who initated the Cold War. And when the Soviet Union made the first nuclear test, it was none other than Winston Churchill who announced the need for a co-existence of two systems. He was a very flexible person. But I think that deep down in his heart, his attitude toward Stalin never wavered,never changed. Stalin was a product of his era. You can try to demonize him however much you like. We try to talk about his merits in achieving victory overFascism. As to his demonization, there was such a person in history as Oliver Cromwell.He was a bloodthirsty man who arrived in power on the wave of a revolution and he turned into a dictator and tyrant. And monuments to him are still scattered all across Great Britain. Napoleon is deified. What did he do? He used the surge of revolutionary zeal and arrived in power. And he not just restored the monarchy, he pronounecd himself Emperor. And he led France te to a national catastrophe,to utter defeat. There are many situations, many people like that, more than enough in the world`s history. I think that excessive demonization of Stalin is one of the ways to attack the Soviet Union and Russia, to show that the Russia of today has something originating from Stalinism. Well, of course we all have these birthmarks.

Stone: Birthmarks.

Putin: What I`m saying is that Russia has changed radically. of course, something probably has remained in our mentality. However, this does not mean that we should forget all the atrocities committed under Stalinism, the destruction of millions of our compatriots, the extermination camps. These things are not to be forgotten.

Stone: And your father and your mother admired him,right?

Putin: Yes, certainly. I think the overwhelming majority of citizens of the former Soviet Union admired him.

普京对斯大林的这段陈述逻辑相当清晰,反驳得有理有据,表述足够克制得体,对斯大林的评价也是足够客观而全面,在结合视频中他自如而流畅的表达,你会觉得他是诚恳的。但是你转念一想,他当了这么多年总统,无数次面对记者的形形色色提问,关于斯大林的提问这肯定也不是第一个,这这么圆满的答案也就不奇怪了。而谈到接下来2018年的竞选看上去火药味更浓,斯通步步紧逼。对话也摘录如下:

Stone: If you run again in 2018 and you win, you will be in power another six years, till 2024. You would have been in power as president and prime minister for 24 years, longer than Roosevelt, less than Castro, who was close to 50years, and close to Stalin, who was, give or take 30years. Now, 27years. Does that not scare you? Do you not get used to power? Uh, does it distort your point of view? Do you feel that Russia needs you that badly? Can there not be a healthy competition among successors inside the system? The Chinese one-party system bing an example of competition within the party. The successors are checked out for many years as party members in different provinces.

你看这问题问的,陈述部分就夹带着倾向性和暗中的褒贬,到了提问环节是一步又一步地紧逼,你是不是不想放弃权力?你是不是已经忘记你的初衷了?俄罗斯人民有这么需要你吗?你看人家中国,一党执政,选举领导人的事的模式不运行的挺好吗?整个纪录片里也就从这个问题开始带有明显的美式的傲慢。

Putin: The leaders of the former Soviet Union were also checked out and the system still collapsed. henghenghengheng...(好啥好?你懂个啥?他们都是跟苏联学的,结果怎么样?苏联不还是倒台了?)

Stone: Yes That`s true.

Putin: So the question is not about selection. The question you have asked whether Russia needs anyone that bad--Russia it self will decide. An alteration in power certainly has to exist. Indubitably there needs to be a healthy competition in these processes, but this competition should be among people who have in mind the interest of the nation. In the end, let me reiterate--the citizens of Russia are going to make the final decision. Concerning the 2018 elections, I`d like to say there are tings, things that should have some intrigue and mystery. So I am not going to answer this part of the question.

Stone: I understand that. I said "if".

Putin: We shouldn`t speak in the subjunctive mood.

Stone: If...(chuckles) And of course, no matter what, you know,um, democracy itself, whatever we call it, is flawed. And America`s system is, is hardly perfect. We Know that money buys power in America. Certainly Russia has a flawed system. It is like-- unlikely that the next election will convince the world that, uh, this is a democracy, a functioning democracy, unless international monitors were brought in, as Mr. Chavez did in Venezuela. And it became a really transparent process.

在美国又何止是权力要用金钱购买,从医疗到教育到社区安全什么不需要用金钱去购买。

斯通说,民主这个东西吧,总是有瑕疵,就算我们美国的制度也难说完美,更何况你们俄罗斯了,是吧? 你比如说,你们俄罗斯下一届的选举,国际社会恐怕将很难认为那是民主的,除非你也让国际观察机构介入进来,就像委内瑞拉的查韦斯先生那样。那才是个公开透明的选举进程嘛。

就算普京是个大独裁,你这话让俄罗斯的爱国青年看见不得把鼻子气歪了? 我泱泱大国,曾经的世界一极,现在就有这么不堪了?我们选个总统还要你们国际社会监督?颜面何存?

曾几何时普京也是以态度强硬著称的。自然也是脸色不好看。接下来就是一波互怼

Putin: Do you think our goal is to prove anything to anyone? Our goal is to reinforce our country.

Stone: That is a dangerous argument, because, uh...it works both ways. Those who abuse power always say it`s a question of survival.

Putin: We are not talking about survival, and we are not trying to justify ourselves. Certainly taking into account all the negative tendencies you`ve been talking about--the Soviet legacy, the Imperialist legacy, it`s something in the past. But we also have to think about the positive legacy. Russia has been built for a thousand years; it has its own traditions.(听上去有点耳熟) We have our notions of what is just and unjust, we have our own understanding of what defines an efficient goverment. This is not a question of helping someone cling to power or to claim it for myself. This is about ensuring economic growth and sustaining it, improving our Defense capabilities, and not just during periods of crisis and difficulties.

是否能够保持经济增长,把蛋糕画的大的政府就是足够好的适合的政府呢?笔者还没想明白这个问题。

接下来斯通吹普京两句,缓和一下紧张的谈话气氛再接着怼。

Stone: Mr. Putin, I don`t doubt for one moment your love and pride in serving Russia. It is clear that you are a son of Russia to me and that you`ve done very well by her. But I think we all know the price of power. And when we`re in power, too long, no matter what, we feel the people need us, but at the same time, we`ve changed, and we don`t even know it sometimes,or recognize it.

Putin: Indeed, this is a very dangerous state. If a person in power feels that they have lost it, this bond connecting this person to the country and to the rank and file citizens of the country, then it`s time for them to go.

斯通的这番陈述给我的感觉是带有书生气的矫情,看着更像是话剧或者电影里的台词。倒也是,这本来就是个影视作品,放个这在结尾,挺合适。

结束后,普京问,你以前有没有挨过揍啊?有过啊?哦“So it`s not going to be something new, because you are going to suffer for what you are doing.”这话我愣是没看懂啥意思。

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