论艺术和科学

MeroYang
一边看一边记。。

说随着艺术和文明日益发展我们的灵魂日益腐坏,而向往“青铜色天空下富饶”的古埃及……联想到孔子当年也批过说他的当下礼崩乐坏,向往周公的年代,虽然都是因为对当下的失望而往回看,得出的观点倒是完全岔劈了。。与中国能够形成互文关系的大约会是文艺复兴时期?
中世纪(“重回太古时期的野蛮状态”——J-Rs)从西罗马灭国开始直到东罗马(拜占庭)被伊斯兰攻陷,文艺复兴自此开始,卢梭将其归功(咎)于摧残文艺的伊斯兰教徒,使得大批知识分子来到意大利,催生了对昔日古希腊和古罗马文明的“再现”。

Rs的批注(1):
Princes are always happy to see developing among their subjects the taste for agreeable arts and for superfluities which do not result in the export of money. For quite apart from the fact that with these they nourish that spiritual pettiness so appropriate for servitude(说的是贵族阶级产出的毫无实际意义仅仅作为地位象征和精神享受的所谓文化艺术奢侈品其实都根植与对底层人民的奴役剥削中), they know very well that all the needs which people give themselves are so many cha...
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一边看一边记。。

说随着艺术和文明日益发展我们的灵魂日益腐坏,而向往“青铜色天空下富饶”的古埃及……联想到孔子当年也批过说他的当下礼崩乐坏,向往周公的年代,虽然都是因为对当下的失望而往回看,得出的观点倒是完全岔劈了。。与中国能够形成互文关系的大约会是文艺复兴时期?
中世纪(“重回太古时期的野蛮状态”——J-Rs)从西罗马灭国开始直到东罗马(拜占庭)被伊斯兰攻陷,文艺复兴自此开始,卢梭将其归功(咎)于摧残文艺的伊斯兰教徒,使得大批知识分子来到意大利,催生了对昔日古希腊和古罗马文明的“再现”。

Rs的批注(1):
Princes are always happy to see developing among their subjects the taste for agreeable arts and for superfluities which do not result in the export of money. For quite apart from the fact that with these they nourish that spiritual pettiness so appropriate for servitude(说的是贵族阶级产出的毫无实际意义仅仅作为地位象征和精神享受的所谓文化艺术奢侈品其实都根植与对底层人民的奴役剥削中), they know very well that all the needs which people give themselves are so many chains binding them. When Alexander wished to keep the Ichthyophagi dependent on him, he forced them to abandon fishing and to nourish themselves on foods common to other people. And no one has been able to subjugate the savages in America, who go around quite naked and live only from what their hunting provides. In fact, what yoke could be imposed on men who have no need of anything?

Before art fashioned our manners and taught our passions to speak an affected language, our habits were rustic but natural, and differences in behavior announced at first glance differences in character.

人性虽然算不上更好,但至少大家(因为没有礼仪和文明的约束)彼此了解。
Human nature was not fundamentally better, but men found their security in the ease with which they could see through each other, and this advantage, whose value we no longer feel, spared them many vices.(某人对原始的人性一定有什么误解。。。

“There is in Asia an immense country where literary honours lead to the highest offices of state. If the sciences purified morals, if they taught men to shed their own blood for their country, if they inspired courage, the people of China would become wise, free, and invincible. But if there is no vice which does not rule over them, no crime unfamiliar to them, if neither the enlightenment of ministers, nor the alleged wisdom in the laws, nor the multitude of inhabitants of that vast empire was capable of keeping it safe from the ignorant and coarse yoke of the Tartars, what use have all these wise men been to them? What fruits has it reaped from all the honours lavished on them? Could it perhaps be the reward of being an enslaved and wicked people?”
友人:放屁!
我:你冷静一下,他说了啥……啥?
(这段大致就是阐述能够治理好邪恶管理好邪恶,势必是因为对恶已经非常熟悉非常有所了解,没有之前的恶,规范人类行善的措施就不会出现/也不会有存在的意义。。ish?)

“although these people know nothing, they all believe they know something; whereas, I, if I know nothing, at least have no doubts about it. As a result, all this superiority in wisdom which the oracle has attributed to me reduces itself to the single point that I am strongly convinced that I am ignorant of what I do not know.”
引用自苏格拉底,这是怀疑主义么。。
之前哪儿看到的,说笛卡尔的我思故我在也算是有蕴涵怀疑主义:“I could doubt everything around him. But one thing I cannot doubt, Descartes said, is that I am doubting.”

"Since the learned men began to appear among us," their own philosophers used to say, "good people have slipped away."
我看的都颤抖了(。

Peoples, know once and for all that nature wished to protect you from knowledge, just as a mother snatches away a dangerous weapon from the hands of her child, that all the secrets which she keeps hidden from you are so many evils she is defending you against, and that the difficulty you experience in educating yourselves is not the least of her benefits. Men are perverse; they would be even worse if they had the misfortune of being born knowledgeable.
(。・∀・)ノ゙嗨!嗨?哈喽??


第二部分讲,科学与艺术都是从我们的罪恶中诞生出来的。
后边又来了一句,如果他们诞生于我们的德行,那我们对它们的怀疑就可以少一些了。
(你狡辩!狡辩!拍桌!
一个可以说是非常不怀好意的说法:
卢梭在受到攻讦逃亡变得敏感内省并专注自我之后,可爱了很多很多很多。

但其实我甚至读到了萌芽时期的消费主义(。)
您要是长命百岁活到现在眼见着现代主义进入后现代消费社会您可得多绝望啊(拍肩

曾经善良无罪的人愿意让神明见证他们的行为,他们生活在同一屋檐下,然而不久之后人们便变得邪恶有罪,他们厌倦了碍手碍脚的神明的监督了,便将他们请入华丽的神殿。最终,他们驱逐了众神而让自己住了进去,或者至少,神殿和市民的房屋也没什么两样了。
“When innocent and virtuous men liked to have gods as witnesses of their actions, they lived with them in the same huts. But having soon become evil, they grew weary of these inconvenient spectators and relegated them to magnificent temples. Finally, they chased the gods out of those so they could set themselves up in the temples, or at least the gods' temples were no longer distinguished from the citizens' houses.”
所以卢梭是相信人之初性本善的,或者也许只是一种期望罢了,想起来几天前读陈丹青的一个采访,他聊“人之初,性本善”这句话的时候,说孟子“并不是说人一生出来就怎样,而是孟子这样看待人,要大家也这样看待人。人对一切需要有个说法。‘性本善’意思就是‘人怎么这
么恶呀!’‘人之初’意思就是‘人原本没有这么恶吧?’”

这戾气:
“那是各式各样颠倒歪曲了的心灵与理智的形象。”
Our gardens are decorated with statues and our galleries with paintings. What do you think these artistic masterpieces on show for public admiration represent? The defenders of our country? Or those even greater men who have enriched it with their virtues? No. They are images of all the errors of the heart and mind, carefully derived from ancient mythology, and presented to our children's curiosity at a young age, no doubt so that they may have right before their eyes models of bad actions even before they know how to read.

人们对我的反对只不过是重新证明了我的观点,那么多(对恶的)预防禁止措施只能更说明它们的存在是多么必要,人们对根本不存在的恶是不会寻求解救方法的。
Let no one therefore make an objection which is for me only a new proof. So many precautions reveal only too clearly how necessary it is to take them. People do not seek remedies for evils which do not exist.
(下面这句话没懂= =)
Why must these ones, because of their inadequacy, still have the character of ordinary remedies?
但为什么(解决这些恶的办法)一定要是(通过科学与文化来教导人类向善)这种呢?是因为它们仍然有缺陷(专注细枝末节而不直达根本),仍然有平凡之恶的特点吗?

So many institutions created for the benefit of the learned are only all the more capable of impressing people with the objects of the sciences and of directing minds towards their cultivation. It seems, to judge from the precautions people take, that we have too many farm labourers and are afraid of not having enough philosophers.
差不多就是,越来越多的学者和学术机构,人们学习哲学,哲学引领大家成为哲学家,并继续创造哲学,这种意思……人们通过教育等一系列防范措施减少无知之人(农民——您对体力劳动者是不是有意见?)仿佛已经有了太多劳动者而只是缺乏哲学家,知识分子还不够多吗农民才是生产基础啊(←潜台词)。。嗨朋友你的思想很危险噢您知道上山下乡吗(围笑

后面random的cirtique了欧洲同时代的各个派别的哲学家把他们比作街头卖艺的江湖骗子吆喝观众的人“大噶好今天我来介绍一下我的哲学观点我告诉你们这就是真理”,并对此发出了嘲讽:“您真觉得这说教是好东西您就自个儿留着让您的朋友和子孙享受呗这样我们彼此都会轻松很多”。。

在表达完了“科学与艺术进步并不能真正让人变好”之后自然而然说到了下一步:那么没有那个智商的人就没必要去学习科学和艺术了啊(就说你思想危险了= =
说某些“编纂者”(应该是类似教育工作者或者导师)把不配接近科学的愚蠢人类们带进了科学殿堂,本来我们应该期待这些学科难度能够很好的筛选掉这些没有深造机会的人的!这样他们就可以投身与有益于社会的工艺了啊!
What will we think of those compilers of works who have indiscriminately beaten down the door to the sciences and introduced into their sanctuary a population unworthy of approaching them. Whereas, one would hope that all those who could not advance far in a scholarly career would be turned back at the entrance way and thrown into arts useful to society. A man who all his life will be a bad versifier or a minor geometer could perhaps have become a great manufacturer of textiles. Those whom nature destined to make her disciples have no need of teachers.(一个糟糕的诗人或者一个低劣的几何学家可能能够成为一个棒呆的纺织品制造商呢——这之中仿佛若有似无的鄙视链应该不是我的错觉?天才都是天生注定的并不需要导师——后文拿笛卡尔牛顿当这个天才不需要导师的例子也不晓得他们自己同不同意哦。。)

倒数第二段,突然抑郁(((???
As for us, common men to whom heaven has not allotted such great talents and destined for so much glory, let us remain in our obscurity. Let us not run after a reputation which would elude us and which, in the present state of things, would never give back to us what it would cost, even if we had all the qualifications to obtain it. What good is it looking for our happiness in the opinion of others if we can find it in ourselves? Let us leave to others the care of instructing people about their duties, and limit ourselves to carrying out our own well. We do not need to know any more than this.
就让我们安于默默无闻吧!上帝的归上帝,凯撒的归凯撒(这句话并不是这么用的但它突然从我脑海里跳出来了没时间了只能记上了就解释成让聪明的有志气的人去尽他妈的不不不他们的义务吧),我们就好好的当愚民就行了(盆友啊假装谦逊也不能掩饰您这思想真的我说很危险啊……

哦看到这里补充一段在正文前阐述其写作动机的最后一段:
To this motive(指的是前文中“I am defending virtue in front of virtuous men. Integrity is cherished among good people even more than erudition is among scholars.”我将为美德辩护,真诚对GoodPeople(←Rs自称)来说比博学之于学者更重要) which encourages me is added another which made up my mind: after I have upheld, according to my natural intelligence, the side of truth, no matter what success I have, there is a prize which I cannot fail to win. I will find it in the depths of my heart.
重点就是:"After I have upheld the side of truth, there is a prize." 我遵从个人意志支持了真理,我便已获得了内心的大满足。
所以您一边反科学反文化说我站出来就是遵从个人意志支持内心认定的真理,一边反着反着就缩回去了说哎哟我们俗人是啊如果我们可以从自身获得满足那我们又何必寻求别人的看法,就让别人来尽他们的义务好好教导人类吧(前段:What good is it looking for our happiness in the opinion of others if we can find it in ourselves? Let us leave to others the care of instructing people about their duties.)


卢梭认为人性之善深藏在每个人灵魂深处,而外部的教育教化则是由“恶”带来的要求人们向善的防护措施,文化科学的教化根植于“恶”并与其互为因果……大约这也是最终他晚年会越来越自省专注自我的缘故吧。作为启蒙运动代表人物,深刻意识到社会阶层的不平等,进而对皇权贵族阶级发起苛责,但在做归因的时候把人的不平等归咎于财产私有制并神奇地把打击力度扩散到了整个文明社会的产物,因此不但引领了启蒙运动同样也是启蒙运动的一枚强有力的批判者……怎么说呢,反正,还是晚年时期老文青那种浪漫主义的腔调最可爱了……


fin.


材料:
Discourse on the Arts and Sciences
Jean-Jacques Rousseau
Translated by Ian Johnston
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