The Republic of Plato 9.5分
读书笔记 第三卷 整理笔记
陈皮皮

The republic 理想国 Book 3 上一卷 要成为敬神和祖先,遵从友谊的人,从儿童时的教育 should and should not be heard 一,courageous -- fear death least 去除恐惧 所以不应毁谤冥王的死亡之地,而应赞扬它。因为对护卫者这样既不true又不beneficial *真为善服务? 1,抹去相关的诗歌 387b “the more poetic they are, the less should they be heard...who must be free and accustomed to fearing slavery more than death” 2,抹去相关的可怕词条names 使人战栗 387c”get hotter and softer than they ought” 运用与之相反的 3,不应描写自己的悲伤” laments and wailings of famous men” 对别人来讲,死亡也不恐怖。 所以不会为儿子,兄弟或财产的失去而悲叹。 将之归于女人(not to the serious ones) and all bad men. 最终达到,388d ”hear such things and laugh scornfully at them as unworthy speeches” 二,去除狂笑 lover of laughter,带来mighty change 对noteworthy human being 和gods 狂笑的描写不得出现 三,truth与lie 谎言 389b “a lie is really useless to gods and useful to human being as a form of remedy....be assigned to doctors while private men must not put their hands to it” 所以lie这种药物应该分给1,rulers 2,to lie for the benefit of the city 3,involving enemies or citizens 而且其他人绝不应插手其中。若他们说谎,就是fault, 比喻医生-病人,船长-水手 需要接受惩罚,因为这种行为是覆灭性的。 四,年轻人需要moderation 节制 对多数人来说,其中最重要的要素:389e ”being obedient to the rulers, and being themselves rulers of the pleasure of drink, sex and eating” 1,赞扬服从和平静的史诗,反对不敬 2,反对对食物带来的快乐的赞扬,对饥饿的恐惧,和情欲的失控 3,弘扬表现出endurance的言行,反对爱恋财物,接受贿赂,还有不敬神的言行。 390c “illiberality accompanying love of money......arrogant disdain for gods and human beings” 特别是神之子,不应有这种terrible and impious deeds”因为之前已经证明过 390d” it’s impossible for evil to be produced by gods” 以免人们轻易原谅自己的恶行,”sow strong proclivity for badness in our young” 关于神的什么该讲述什么不该讲述已经结束,接下来就到人的。现在还无法讲述。因为尚未论证正义是什么,如何凭它的本性对人有利。 The end of what has to do with speeches,讲述什么 一,接下来,开始考虑style, 怎么讲述。 narrative分为三种: 1,simple————————实际应用于 颂神的抒情诗中 纯粹的叙述, 不把自己隐藏起来 2,imitation———————实际应用于 悲剧和喜剧 393c “give a speech as though he were someone else.....liken his own style” 把自己隐藏起来,模仿 3,by both together————实际应用于 史诗作品和别的诗体中 二,接下来讨论城邦里是否应该允许诗人们使用模仿去讲述? 首先,从394d ”whether our guardians ought to be imitators or not”护卫者与模仿开始 之前讨论的前提:”one would do a fine job in one activity, but not in many” 模仿也同理。395a “the same man aren’t capable of producing good imitation in both at the same time”同一个人不能很好的同时模仿很多东西 则得出结论:395c “our guardians must give up all other crafts and very precisely be craftsmen of the city’s freedom.” 即使是模仿,也应该模仿”from childhood: men who are courageous, moderate, holy, free.” *从幼年开始,模仿--习惯--自然 所以护卫者不应模仿: 1,女人;2,奴隶;3,bad men; 4,mad men and worthless men and women; 5,other craft; 6,自然界的声音。 推导出:style and narrative 有两种form: 1,real gentleman 愿意去模仿good man,不愿意去模仿someone unworthy of himself 所以他的style是:396e ”participate in both imitation and the other kind of narrative......be a little bit of imitation and the other kind of narrative” *与前面讲到的“好的改变少,坚持自身多”相对应 2与前者相反的,common people 397a “the more he will narrate everything and think nothing unworthy of himself” 所以他的style是:397a”be based on imitation of voice and looks, oe else include only a bit of narrative” 总结:即一种只包括很小的变化,并配上适当的harmonic mode and rhythm, small change 另一种相反,需要一切的modes and rhythms,包括all species of change. 诗人将采取这两种中的一种,或是将两者混合起来?是否该允许进入城邦? 格劳孔赞同:397d “the unmixed imitator of the decent.” 然而人们更喜欢有趣的混合方式”the man who is mixed is pleasing......and to the great mob”人们追求声色犬马感官的快乐 但混合的方式与城邦不符,因为397e”there is no double men among us, nor a manifold one, since each man does one thing.” 不允许留下这样的诗人: 398a “is able by wisdom to become every sort of thing and to imitate all things” 人们的反应会是:跪倒在他面前,认为他sacred, wonderful and pleasing 处理:398a “no such man among us.....nor is it lawful for such man to born here” 把他奉送去别的城市 希望留下的诗人: 398b “more austere and less pleasing poet and teller of tales for the sake of our benefit” 他将”imitate the style of the decent man and would say what he says in those models”(之前确立的教育护卫者的模式) 则现在关于speeches and tales(言辞和神话)讲什么和怎么讲结束了 到了音乐的部分”the manner of song and melody” 要与之前相一致 一,音乐包括三部分: 1,speech 歌词 2,harmonic mode合声 3,rhythm节奏 符合上述关于言语的规定,而且same mode。 和声跟节奏也跟随之。 →所以wailing和lamentations不在其中,且其相应的modes(mixed Lydian,the”tight”Lydian and similar)也要摒除。 Drunkenness,softness and idleness,更与护卫者最不相称。对应的slack modes(Ionian and some Lydian) 剩下的只余Dorian和Phrygian, 苏格拉底的要求: 1,留下399b “the mode...... Imitate the sounds and accents of a man who is courageous in warlike deeds and every violent work”即使遭遇不幸也坚强镇定 2,留下另一种399b “for a man who performs a peaceful deed,one that is not violent but voluntary” 向人向神request, holding himself, 399c “moderately and in measure and being content with the consequences” 刚好与前面两者对应。 则,不需要many-toned or panharmonic的乐器 → 不support制造相关乐器的手艺人,包括三角竖琴,一般竖琴,还有笛子等 → 则剩下Lyre和cither——for the city; sort of pipe——for the herdsmen 选择Appollo的而非Marsyas的乐器 *399e ”unawares we’ve again purged the city that a while ago we said was luxurious” 接下来到rhythms节奏的规则 方法:400a “see which are the rhythms of an orderly and courageous life......compel the foot and the tune to follow the speech of such a man” 有三种种类的诗步(which the feet are woven): Damon指导有①enoplion foot; ②dactyl; ③heroic; ④iambic; ⑤trochaic细节待详细讨论,但要判断grace与否 且节奏与语言风格(style)相契合,且follow it,而语言的风格又follow the disposition of the soul. 结论:上述所有这些都要依随于400e “good disposition......but that understanding truly trained to a good and fair disposition” 二,将教育扩展开来,pursue them everywhere *这种好德性,性情应渗透到生活方方面面。 Painting以及相关的手艺,织物,建筑,以及其他日常用品制作工艺,动植物的体态。优雅与克制和善好的品德相对应。 监督和禁止诗人还有craftsmen,要让他们impress the image of the good disposition 最终达到401c “the young,dwelling as it were in a healthy place, will be benefited by everything.”熏习 所以音乐的教育是最为重要的。sovereign 因为①,rhythm and harmony能最为强有力的进入人内心,使之graceful. ②,经过恰当乐教的会有”sharpest sense”对于缺陷与不足,有right kind of dislike ③,praise the right thing,而且吸收进灵魂中,成为gentleman. 在幼年尚未有理性时,能正确的辨认和讨厌丑陋。 而当理性来临时,他将第一个辨认出它并热爱理性。 最终达到:Competent at reading,无论是在: 402b ①in any of the combinations在一切细微的场合; ②in either small writing or large; ③image of writing appear somewhere 建立在这样的基础上:”believing that they all belong to the same art and discipline” 灵魂里的内在好disposition与外表form,这种内容与形式的统一,是fairest---lovable *美与善的统一,从好到爱,其中的美不是躯体上的,而是灵魂中符合德行之物 而经过良好乐教的人将最能感知这种美 以纵欲和节制对比,得出:403a”naturally right kind of love to love in a moderate and musical way(怎么爱) what’s orderly and fine(爱的对象)” 所以,应设立下这样的法律(自然正当之爱):同性之爱&年长之人。超出则被认为unmusical & inexperienced in fair things 关于音乐的讨论,停在美上: 403c”musical matters should end in love matters that concern the fair” 关于体育gymnastic 403d “a good soul provides the body with its own virtue so as to make it as good as it can be”灵魂让身体发挥出最好的德行 主要讨论大概的mode: 1,远离drunkenness 2,food: 运动员的饮食习惯 3,sleepy 总结,一个战士,应入狗般少眠,听视力敏锐,经历各种状况,体魄仍保持稳定强健。 所以,训练方式:simple& decent 像music一样 食物:最简单,by the use of fire alone,不用调料。情欲节制 总结:404d refinement→licentiousness放纵there;illness疾病 here simplicity in music→moderation in soul;simplicity in gymnastic→health in bodies Bad and base education坏的教育: 需要医生和律师 405b’base...lack of education...because shortage at home--to use a justice imported from others” *需要外部正义,而无法通过内心的正义和法律成为自己的主宰 会用于2,医疗:因为idleness and a way of life 以Herodicus为例,mix gymnastic with medicine,drew out his death,把所有时间精力花在关注疾病上。 *什么样的生活才值得过?以保命作为第一原则? 406b ”for all men obedient to good laws a certain job has been assigned to each in the city” 好的医学应是能治就治,不能治就死去,不把生命浪费在漫长的治疗上 因为如果一个人有definite job但不能做,就no profit of go on living 人生须practice virtue,而这需要通过集中在某一技艺上来实行德行。 太关注身体,会让learning,thought,meditation by oneself hard,成为in every way a hindrance. 对于Asclepius这样精通医术之人,←statesman懂政治的人 医学技术会用于:407d”by nature and regimen in a healthy condition”但有局部伤痛的 而不治那些”who is not able to live in his established round”,因为”he’s no profit to himself or to the city” 怎么样才算是好医生和好法官: 1,好医生的标准: ①从幼年开始学起技艺;②跟很多和患重病的躯体接触过;③自己也患过一切疾病,而且生来不是很健康 因为408e不是”care for body with a body......but for a body with a soul” 2,好法官的标准:rules a soul with a soul ①不能从年轻时就在bad souls里养育和接触,它对不义的事应该毫无沾染,inexperienced and untainted by bad dispositions,这样才能做出什么是just的healthy判断 ②因为年轻的decent men很容易被欺骗,所以好法官应为年老的,a late learner of what injustice is,从别人的心灵中发现,而非自己心灵滋生。By knowledge,not experience 即noble and good 而另一种与好法官相对的clever and suspicious man,与unlearned相处显得聪明,与美好之人相处时却显得愚蠢多疑。 因为409e “badness would never know virtue and itself,while virtue in an educated nature will in time gain a knowledge of both itself and badness.” -总结,则设立法律: 提供这样的法律和医学,为good nature in soul and body提供治疗,而让那些没有的人自行死去。 学习simple music → moderation,不与法律交涉 这一musical man学习gymnastic,则不与医疗打交道,而且促成spirited part of his nature 但最终两者都是410c ”established both chiefly for the soul.” 下面反驳音乐和体育是分开为care of soul/body: 护卫者应具备两者(即体育和音乐)和谐的气质,即需要:harmonized协调不过度;moderate and courageous 反之一个不和谐的人cowardly and crude 则得出结论:412a”music and gymnastic for the spirited and the philosophic...for these two(soul and body)......be harmonized with one another by being turned to the proper degree of tension and relaxation” The most perfectly musical and well harmonized man 是makes the finest mixture of gymnastic with music ......in the most proper measure “ Education and rearing部分结束,下面规定谁是rule and be ruled: 1,ruler old and the ruled young; 2,ruler:most skillful,即:prudent powerful care for the city 而因为412d ”a man would care most for that which he happened to love” →”love something most ...... Believe that the same things are advantageous to it and to himself”最有利的,人与城邦,荣辱与共 在护卫者中选择ruler的标准:全力做有利于城邦的事,而绝不做有损城邦的事。 在其一生的各阶段考察,他是否坚守这个信念。 放弃信念的两种方式: 1,willing:false opinion,learn otherwise过去错误的信念,学习到新的 2,unwilling:every true opinion一切真实的信念 人们不愿意被剥夺好的东西。 则出于robbed,由于时间或言辞在unware中夺走了他们的信念 forced,由于grief或pain bewitched,被pleasure所迷惑或被fear所威慑 则应该如何考验护卫者:best guardians of their conviction ①考验:从小时候开始就设置tasks(让人最容易忘记和被欺骗信念); ②艰辛:把他们放在labors,pains,contests; ③诱骗巫术:放在terror,再放在pleasures,more than gold in fire 413e”a good guardian of himself and the music he was learning,proving himself to possess rhythm and harmony on all occasions” 这样的人将成为统治者,且无论living and dead,“must be allotted the greatest prizes in burial and the other memorial” 将他们称之为”complete guardians”无论对内(not wish)还是对外(unable) 接下来,谈及noble lie: In case of need;persuade in best case,even the ruler,否则则城邦的其他人 苏格拉底的hesitant-- Nothing new,在之前各地有过,但不知道if it could,现在实施需要a big deal of persuasion 具体实施: 1,首先说服统治者和护卫者,然后城邦居民 dreams:以为真有其事:414d “under the earth within, being fashioned and reared”在大地底下被塑形和养育。包括他们自己和工具武器。 当完成后,送上地面。 →这样,他们会保卫他们的母亲大地,并把其他人当做自己手足。 2,rest of the tale: 神将其中能当统治者的人,在创造他们是参杂了gold金子进去,所以他们most honored; 对auxiliaries,参杂了sliver银;对craftsmen,iron and bronze铁和铜 若一个阶层里产生了不属于这一阶层的后代, 415a “Hence the god commands the rulers first and foremost...... to keep over nothing so careful a watch as the children” 因为415c”the city will be destroyed when an iron or bronze man is its guardian, 这种做法对现在的人不可能,但对他们的后代有可能。可以”making them care more for the city and one another” 建立军营: 跟随report神谕,armed,earth-born,统治者带领 来到城中fairest place,方位既能对外也能对内镇压不守法之人。 Adequate shelter 应把护卫者和人们区分开来: 因为416a ”the most terrible and shameful thing of all is for shepherds to rear dogs as auxiliaries for the flocks......do harm to the sheep and instead of dogs become like wolves.”牧羊人养的狗攻击羊群,变成了狼 所以必须防卫此,通过: ①really finely educated,是他们对彼此和被守护者tame ②在房屋和财产方面,不应妨碍他们: A,除了必需品外没有私人财产 B,公开,没有别人不能进去的居室 C,他们按一定规定从其他居民中取到wage,数额不使之匮乏,也没有盈余 D,护卫者集体生活,共同用餐 我们告诉他们: A,他们已在出生时从神那儿得到了divine sort金和银, B,将之与mortal sort混合起来是不holy的pollute,因为许多unholy things因这些世俗货物而做。而他们身上的金银是untainted C,去接触金银也是not lawful 最终“thus save themselves as well as save the city” 否则将不再是护卫者,并且他们自身和城邦都将走向毁灭。 所以,订立法律: 417b”the guardians must be provided with housed and the rest in this way” \

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